Ahmedinejad on the holocaust

Some extracts below from Katie Couric's interview with Ahmedinejad on CBS.The whole thing is well worth watching. The first part (not transcribed) deals with the nuclear threat. Available here:

Part 1
Part 2

KC Some might say that Iran is the largest sponsor, the biggest... er... perpetrator of state-sponsored and has produced inflammatory rhetoric along the lines that Israel should be blown off the map. Given those things, can you understand the concern the international community may have about Iran, in particular?

AM: ... With respect to Palestine, I've always raised a very clear question. What I'm saying, is that we need to ask ourselves where did the events of WW2 happen? Well the answer is - it happened in Europe. So who killed 60 million people during WW2? It was.. people that belonged to the European governments of the time - some European governments at the time. So - what does this have to do with the Palestinian people? Why do we use the murders of WW2 as a pretext to kill Palestinian people now? So, the questions I ask are clear ones.

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KC: Finally, Mr President, last night in an interview with the Associated Press, you backed off your claims denying the holocaust ever happened. But as recently as last week, you said that the holocaust was false, a lie based on unprovable and mythical claims. Are you now admitting that the holocaust in fact did happen?

AM: Well if we want to just say a myth, or a story, there are three definitions for what it is. I'd like to give you the three definitions, and you tell me which one applies to the holocaust. One definition is that there are stories that are untrue, that are made... to alter... to shape the views of people about certain subjects. Or to create mythical heroes, or mythical forms of murder, or to turn, and create really good people, make really good people out of these stories. That's one of the definitions of what a story is. A second definition is when an event does happen, but then the reality of the event is distorted, the truth about it is distorted, and resaid in a different way. And that too can make a story. A third definition of a story is when an event happens, but the results and the consequences have really nothing to do with the actual event. For example, let's assume someone in Texas drinks alcohol, and kills a few people. But then in New York, a teacher is taken, based on the crime carried out in Texas, and electrocuted. Well, which one of these definitions do you think applies to the holocaust.

KC: I'm not sure I follow you.

MA: Well I'd like to ask you to think about what I said. Something happened in Europe, and event happened, and you insist to tell me, to get me to say that it happened, and I want to say well you have a right to insist, and that's fine, so we'll assume that what you say about this event is true. Fine, we can put that aside, and then ask ourselves where exactly did it happen? In Europe. By whom? By a European government at the time. So what does this have to do with the Palestinian people.

KC (Interrupts) No, but that's a separate issue. You have consistently denied the holocaust happened, you have called it a lie, adn I'm just curious. I have some photos - these are dead bodies from a German concentration camp, taken by the Associated Press. Mr President is this photo fabricated, is this photo a lie?

AM: NO, I'm asking you a different questions. There are many historical events, similar historical events. Why is this one in particular so important to you?

KC: Because you're denying it happened.

AM: But in WW2, 60 million people were killed. Why are we just focussing on this special group alone?

KC: We don't have to focus. It was part of the genocide, part of a larger genocide. So why do you refute that that part of the genocide took place.

AM: Allow me... allow me to say what my position is. This is not what my position is at all. I think there is an overemphasis on this issue, in order to neglect the occupation of Palestine. We weren't around 60 years ago, and we don't know exactly what happened, but we do know that there is a genocide happening in Palestine now.

KC: (interrupts) That's a separate issue Mr President

AM: And I'm asking you what will be - it is not a separate issue at all - we are using the holocaust as a pretext to occupy Palestine, to establish the Zionist regime based on the pretext of the holocaust ... allow me, I do request and urge you to expand on the historical aspect of this issue. I ask you, again, why do you insist on this event alone.

KC: We're not talking about the aftermath of the holocaust, we're talking about claims that you have repeatedly made - this is a separate issue Mr President - claims you have repeatedly made, that it never took place. Again, I'd like to show you this photo if I could.

AM: You're telling me it happened. Now - show this to a historian, and tell me what the historian will tell you. In as far as historical and scientific issues are involved, we are not a layman to discuss these issues, based on a layman's approach. I'd like to have a scientific, a historical, an academic perspective on any historical event that happened, to guarantee that the logic of the discussion is there. What I am saying is that if a historical event has indeed happened, then we must allow more.. further examinations of the event. That's fine. Why is it that anyone who raises any question about any aspect of the event is stopped. What is the mystery to this event? If you don't know about it, I'd like to tell you. It was a pretext to occupy Palestine. And that is unacceptable to us, at all times. No scientist, no academic can accept the logic of this event. In the end it ... when it happened, it happened in Europe.

So why do we need to examine the historical event now, here, today? Why is there such level of bias, so much rigidity over this issue? I mean in the end, it's just simply because of the consequences, the aftermath that you said. If you move away the aftermath, and the consequences of this event then the event is a standalone event, a piece of ... a part of history during which 60 million people were killed, and we are very sorry that it happened. And we're sorry for all the 60 million people that lost their lives, equally. All of them were human beings. And it doesn't matter whether they were Christians, or Jews, or Buddhists or Muslims. They were killed. So we're sorry for everyone. But if we wanted to derive a conclusion from that event, to give ourselves the right to go and kill Palestinians just in the way it is done today - there is genocide in Palestine - then we really need to focus on the question of genocide on Palestine..

KC: But if I'm following you correctly Mr President, you are in fact conceding that the holocaust did in fact take place.

AM: Well you can conclude whatever you like from my remarks. But what I have before my eyes is the genocide that's happening right now. Why is it that our tongues are tied? Why is it that the tongues are tied here, the US media - why is that you cameras are not focused on the genocide there? I mean it's a serious question if you think about it. Just by accusing Ahmadinejad you can't eliminate the reality on the ground there.

KC: But one doesn't have to negate the other Mr President.

AM: You are connecting two things. And I'm asking you to clarify the connection between the two events. What is the nature of the relationship between WW2 and the events that transpired, and the Palestinian issue. Now, we don't live in the past any more. We're alive in the now, here. So we must stop murders and killings now.

KC: As you continue though, Mr President, to deny the existence of the holocaust, it undermines your credibility on the international stage... many people think that you are trying to delegitimise the very existence of Israel by doing this and to destract from other issues, such as your nuclear programme.

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AM: With these pictures, and with these words, we can never give the Zionist regime any degree of legitimacy because it's a regime based on usurpation, occupation, and the murder of innocent people. Rest assured that neither history, nor the states in the region, can ever legitimise this state... the state.. this regime [probably translator faltering over word here] or ever recognise it. If anyone wants to assist the Zionists, I think that they can do so by asking them to revisit the concepts of law and justice for all. I think that we, and they need to consider the fact that the Palestinian people, like everyone else, has the right to self-determination. Any Palestinian, wherever, of whatever creed and belief - Muslim, Jewish or Christian - should have the right to self-determination, now, decide about their own fate. I wish you'd allow that to happen.