libya
we're going to war with Iraq
Submitted by antarchi on November 4, 2011 - 18:46I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you’ve got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you’re too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "We’ve made the decision we’re going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We’re going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don’t know." He said, "I guess they don’t know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There’s nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it’s like we don’t know what to do about terrorists, but we’ve got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."
So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it’s worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" — meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office — "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir."
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£65 million per week
Submitted by antarchi on October 8, 2011 - 22:49According to the figures compiled by Defense Analysis editor Francis Tusa, the war has cost around £1.75 billion so far...
Based on publicly-released figures from the Royal Air Force (RAF) and numbers quoted during parliamentary questions, Tusa used two different methods to estimate the total costs of the war. His first calculation gave a total between £1.38 billion and £1.58 billion, and his second between £850 million and £1.75 billion.
The figures give the costs incurred due to military operations in Libya alone, ignoring routine training and maintenance costs. They do not include the cost of recent RAF sorties, involving flights from mainland Britain to the North African coast for bombing and reconnaissance missions. Some preparatory logistic operations, such as the transport of tonnes of military hardware to bases in Italy by a fleet of Eddie Stobart trucks, were also left out.
it costs £2.5 million per day to run a single Eurofighter Typhoon fighter-bomber. The UK is operating ten Typhoons from a base in southern Italy. Paveway IV bombs cost £50,000 per mission. These form part of the average £65 million weekly cost of British air operations in Libya.
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MI6 knew I was tortured
Submitted by antarchi on September 17, 2011 - 23:40A Libyan rebel leader who was rendered to Tripoli with the assistance of MI6 said on Monday that he had told British intelligence officers he was being tortured but they did nothing to help him.
In a claim that will increase the pressure for further disclosure about the UK's role in torture and rendition since 9/11, Abdul Hakim Belhaj said a team of British interrogators used hand signals to indicate they understood what he was telling them.
"I couldn't believe they could let this go on," he said. "What has happened deserves a full inquiry."
Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tipoff, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons.
It emerged on Monday that MI6 had been able to tell the CIA of his whereabouts after his associates informed British diplomats in Malaysia that he wished to claim asylum in the UK. Belhaj was then allowed to board a flight for London and abducted when the plane called at Bangkok.
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postscript to notes on libya
Submitted by antarchi on September 15, 2011 - 23:00Postscript to the child's homework. The child decided that our motives in going in to Libya were not as we had stated, but that it had been worth going in anyway - and the intervention was justified.
Further questions to the child:
1. Is it important whether the new govt is likely to be better than the old, given what we know about them. Mustafa Abdul Jalil who now heads the Libyan interim government [National Transition Council] recently said in a public gathering, "We will not accept any extremist ideology, on the right or the left. We are Muslim people, for a moderate Islam, and will stay on this road. We strive for a state of the law, for a state of prosperity, for a state that will have Islamic Sharia law the basis of legislation."
2. The 'rebels' (now the govt) have engaged in large scale looting of weapons. Since many of those who supported the rebel movement were islamic radicals, it's likely these will be used against 'the west' in other wars. This is exactly what happened in Afghanistan: we armed and trained Bin Laden's men to get the Russians out (in the 80s) and this is now being used against us.
3.The 'coalition' (UK, US, France etc) have broken international law in supporting the rebels and in pursuing regime change. What message does it send to the world if some people are allowed to remove leaders they don't like (but not those they do), and others aren't. Imagine Iran or China or Russia sending in the bombs to support a movement to depose a leader and how we would react to that. The law only works if everyone - including those at the top - respect it, and are brought to justice when they fail to do so.
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notes on libya for a child's homework
Submitted by antarchi on September 14, 2011 - 23:00Homework: Ask each member of your family
a) Why are we in Libya?
b) Do you think it's right that we are there?
Some answers
Surely Gadhafi is the new Saddam / Hitler / Stalin and we are stepping in to protect the Libyan people
Unlikely: there are dictators far more evil who treat their people far worse than Gadaffi ever did. Karimov (Uzbekistan) boils people alive. He is our great ally in the war on terror (and we use intelligence from his torture chambers to ‘win’ that war).
Gadhafi is not a nice man. He tortures people (we also used his torture services to gain ‘intelligence’ - rather than doing it ourselves1). But he has done more to raise the living standards of the Libyan people than the leader of any other African state:
- 1. “A Libyan rebel leader who was rendered to Tripoli with the assistance of MI6 said on Monday that he had told British intelligence officers he was being tortured but they did nothing to help him…
Belhaj was detained by the CIA in Thailand in 2004 following an MI6 tipoff, allegedly tortured, then flown to Tripoli, where he says he suffered years of abuse in one of Muammar Gaddafi's prisons”. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/05/abdul-hakim-belhaj-libya-mi6...
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bombs or welfare
Submitted by antarchi on June 12, 2011 - 15:5065,500 people are facing an average weekly cut of £41 due to changes in housing benefit, which the government says will "save" in total £200 million.
The homeless charity Crisis says this could force 11,000 disabled people out of their homes. "We are deeply concerned that some of the disabled people affected by this will end up homeless, and in the worst cases rough-sleeping."
We were told the cost of the war would be "tens of millions, not hundreds", but the government admits that over £100 million has been spent already. It is anticipated that by October over £1 billion pounds will have been spent waging war on a country which poses no threat whatever to Britain.
...It is costing over £2 million a week to station Britain's warships and submarines in the Mediterranean. In total, Britain is spending £3 million a day on the war in Libya. Which means that in the next nine weeks the war will cost the £200 million the government says it has to cut through changes to housing benefit.
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